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Do you want me to talk or do you want to ask questions? I guess I could start with telling you my impressions of you. It appears to me that since I was here last year, you seem to have greater, more intense problems. This is for all in general, not anyone in particular. This intensification of problems makes it appear as though we are going backwards, but it isn't true. We have risen to the state where we can outwardly better express ourselves, and problems now come out into the world rather than remain held in the subconscious mind. When we are apathetic it's difficult for us to express. It's difficult for us to outwardly act, and so our problems remain swirling around in our subconscious mind and most of them don't come out and materialize in the world.
When one begins to move a step above the apathetic state, one is still in the apathetic state but is beginning to acquire some of the capability of doing. Then one's problems increasingly materialize outwardly and it seems as though the world is falling in on one. But it's actually a state of growth to move up from the apathetic state and come up into the beginnings of the doingness state, and that's the state of apathetic-doingness. So when we come into this apathetic-doingness state we begin to do with apathetic, agitated tendencies and therefore we're somewhat destructive, even to ourselves. We become outwardly or expressively destructive to the world and to ourselves, we have problems and things seem worse. We think we're going backwards but actually we're moving ahead, because apathetic-doingness is higher than apathetic non- doingness.
Now, the step above apathetic-doingness would be one of doingness where we would be equally constructive and destructive. Move up another step, and you move into the doingness beingness state where you're a big doer and only constructive. When you step up from there, you go into the beingness state you don't have to do, you just only be. So the overall state of the world today is that it has moved up into this apathetic-doingness state and the world seems to have bigger and better problems. This is progress, a step forward, although it appears otherwise. To sum up the foregoing, the stages of growth are set out on the next page.
Q: Is this the world in general, or is it just the people on the path who are caught up in this?
Lester: It's both. We are all involved in this. You see it expressed in the race issue, the revolt again the establishment, juvenile delinquency, Viet Nam, Africa. It's prevalent everywhere today. It is part of the world growth (Stage 2).
Q: Is this because people are more developed to cope with it?
STAGES OF GROWTH
INACTION
Apathy: Inaction due to apathy, with resentments and hostilities, and fear to express for fear of retaliation. A subjectively destructive state.
(Between 1. and 3.)
Apathetic-doingness: Beginnings of action, enough will to express things outwardly. A beginning of an outwardly active but destructive state.
ACTION
Doingness: Action that moves us out of Stage 1, toward the equilibrium of Stage 5. Here one is equally constructive and destructive to oneself and the world.
(Between 3. and 5.)
Doingness-beingness: Energetic doingness with calmness: much outward action, all constructive to ourself, the world and the universe.
INACTION
Serenity: Inaction, the ability to just be, to be the witness, watching and allowing the universe to be perfect as it really is.
Lester: They're more developed, not to cope with it, but more developed. The way they're coping with it is in a destructive way. Problems don't have to be solved by killing each other or by violence. Problems could be solved by discussions and should be. However, it's a step forward from a lower state (Stage 1).
The world today is in a low state of beingness (Stage 2). It's called the materialistic age. We came out of the lowest state, wherein we lived only to satiate our appetites, about 1700 A.D. You know what the dark ages were. We're now in the second stage and we're having the growing pains of getting out of the first into the second. But the second is not a highly spiritual state; its the stage where technically we advance tremendously. The third stage begins the state of knowing that this is a mental world and that we are all related. We stop fighting each other and we all love one another. And the fourth state is the state in which man - knows fully his beingness in God, that he is a totally free being. These four are the Iron, bronze, silver and golden ages the ancient Greeks spoke of. (The fifth stage is really beyond this world, although accomplished in this world.) However, at anytime, whenever anyone chooses, he may move into the highest state. We don't have to stay at the level that the world is in, and those of us who are on the path are moving up out of this general level. Aren't we lucky?
Q: Even with our problems?
Lester: Yes. To the world everything seems hopeless. They feel helpless. We know the way out. No matter how much the world hurts, we know there's a way out. We have hope and a direction. And what is the way out? Not looking to the world for happiness, but looking to the place where happiness is, -and that place is right within us, within our consciousness. Unlimited joy is our natural, inherent state which we have, through ignorance, undone by imposing concepts of limitations: I need this, I need him, I need her, and if I don't get these I am hurt, I have trouble. Growth is only letting go of these concepts of lack and limitation or, on the positive side, going within and seeing this unlimited Being that we are and choosing to remain as such.
Anytime we have trouble, anytime we have a problem, we're being the limited ego. Were trying to express the Self through the limited ego, and it's too small, we get squeezed and it hurts. So, if there is a problem, the thing to do is to ask yourself, What am I doing? Wherein am I demanding, seeking with ego motivation? If the answer comes, if you see how, egowise, you're causing this so-called problem, you'll automatically pull the cause up from the subconscious into the conscious, and once it's conscious you'll naturally let go of it. The reason why one doesn't let go is because the cause, the thought that initiated the difficulty is subconscious. So, either we make the thought conscious and let go of it, or, and this is the higher and better way, we know strongly enough that we are the Self, that we are not this body, this mind, this world. And when you feel the Self, the feel of the Self is nothing but unlimited joy, and all problems immediately resolve!
I sound quite indicting when I say any problem, any trouble, is ego motivated, but that you'll find is true. When you will be your Self there is no problem, there is nothing that will not fall into line perfectly, harmoniously, with no effort. The more ego motivated we are, the more difficult it is to accomplish something, the less harmony there is and the greater the misery we have. And it is really as simple as I'm putting it. What's not easy is to let go of these wrong habits of insisting upon being an ego. The habits are strong. They've been well ingrained over thousands of years. But all of us on the path are now letting go of these things and we don't let go easily because of the habits that have been there such a long, long time. However, the moment we choose to let go of them, we can. If we say we can't let go it's because we really don't want to. The desire to let go isn't strong enough.
Do I make this too simple? You know why I'm addressing you, Jim, because I know you've had quite a lot of this. You've probably heard it presented in beautifully complicated ways, with a lot of things added to it that complicate it, and make it more difficult to see. But once we accept it and see the simplicity of it, all we need to do is effect it. And no one can do it for us but we ourselves.
Q: I have a friend who has problems. She's Catholic and very pious. When things get blackest and she has no more hope and is at the bottom I at that very moment something happens so that everything turns out right.
Lester: Do you know why she must reach bottom?
Q: Well she has faith and she knows that---
Lester: No, she doesn't have faith and she is not pious I this is her trouble. You see I faith would cause her to let go and let God. Pious would cause a similar thing, --- surrendering and being humble. Outwardly she's the way you say I but inwardly she's the way I'm saying. You see, she tries, herself, to control everything and that's not letting God. She tries and she tries and she tries.
Q: She prays.
Lester: Yes I she prays, but she wants it the way she wants it, not the way God would want it. She's found out that her praying for it doesn't help her. You don't have to pray, if you surrender. You've got to let go and let God. When does she let go and let God? When she herself can't do anything anymore, she lets go. In the extreme she lets go, and the moment one lets go, everything resolves itself. Can you see it? In the extreme, she feels, Oh, there's nothing I can do, and that's when she lets go and lets God. If you can show her this point she'll see it, most likely, and then be more consciously able to use it.
Q: I keep trying to tell her that she must be confident.
Lester: Conviction, stronger than faith, absolute conviction of God, that will do it! Let go and let God and then everything straightens out, but when we try to do it, we have trouble.
Q: When you say, Let go and let God, does that mean that you should work strictly on inspiration, or just sit back and let things happen?
Lester: Have the feeling of letting things happen. To accomplish this we have to let the ego- sense go. The ego is I am an individual, Lester:, and 1 have a body and I do things. That's wrong. If I am the Self, there is no Lester:, -1 have to get Lester: out of the way and let Self or God operate. When achieved, you'll move in life, you'll sort of fioat through things, but there will be no effort. If there's effort, there's ego. Now, of course, you're going to have to use some effort, because you're not starting off as the realized Self. You see, when this girl goes to the extreme, she lets go and things happen effortlessly. That's letting go and letting God!
Professing faith, professing all these things doesn't do it. Actually having them does it. The fact that she has troubles is proof that she doesn't have the conviction of God because God is All, God is Perfect, and if God is All and God is Perfect, everything must be perfect, and that leaves no place for imperfection or troubles. If you take that attitude, so be it! So, it's the feeling that I am not the doer and that I let go and let it happen.
Q: I can't tell when I'm ego.
Lester: When there's no effort, there's no ego. The more the effort the more the ego.
Q: When the effort is extreme you have to more or less go the other way anyway.
Lester: Yes. I'm trying to give you a method of knowing whether it's ego or not. The more the effort the greater the ego. However, you're going to use effort until you're fully realized. Now, there will be times when you'll use no effort and everything will fall perfectly into line for you, so at times you'll be your Self.
Q: Out doesn't this type of thing make you indolent, that you don't do any action? Is it that you shouldn't try to do anything, that's what I don't understand?
Lester: Indolence is an action, a negative action. It is the act of holding yourself from moving. Now it is impossible for you to be actionless. To achieve the actionless state you should try to let go of your ego more and more, because now you can't do it totally. If you could you'd be fully realized. But if you keep letting go of the ego, you will eventually drop it and be the witness and be not the doer. Does that make sense or have any meaning? Be not the doer. Let it happen. Have the feeling of it's God's world, whatever's happening, so let Him!
Q: How do we get rid of problems?
Lester: The moment you say, I have a problem, you're stuck, you are making it real! You can't get rid of a problem, because you are making it real. You've got it.
Q: So, if, when we have problems, we say, There is no problem at all, -will they vanish then?
Lester: No. If you say, There's no problem, they won't vanish because you're saying, There's no problem. You're mentally holding the problem in mind and therefore sustaining it. Erase the problem from your mind.) Know that everything is perfect and then the problem is necessarily non-existent.
Q: Well, I think that way, that everything is really perfect.
Lester: If you really do then everything must be.
Q: How easy it would be if we understood this from the beginning.
Lester: Yes. You see, life, naturally, is totally effortless. There is no effort in life whatsoever if we would just be our natural Self. But we're trying to be a limited ego. That takes effort. It takes effort to be limited when your natural state is unlimited, and the more you try to be limited, the more effort it takes. But to be your unlimited Self it takes no effort. Just like your friend, when she got to the extreme she would let go and everything would straighten out, - with no effort. All the time she was trying and trying, things were getting worse and worse. But when she gave up and let go, -things resolved.
Q: Well, she had to go out and look for a job, she had to go to an agent, she just couldn't sit down and wait.
Lester: I say all she had to do was to let go and be herself. Then even if she locked herself in a chamber somewhere, the things would have come to her. You don't sit down and wait, you don't do anything. Just let go of the sense of doership. You just know that everything is perfect and then the slightest thought you have will quickly come into being. There's no limitation on God, the Self. Whatever you thought, would have to come into being if you let go, because you're invoking your infinite power, your Self. Nothing can stop it!
Q: But at the same time you have to struggle to get some action.
Lester: No, I said just the opposite, I say lock yourself in a chamber and padlock the outside of it and if you do what I'm saying you'll find that it will be effected. It has to be. Nothing can stop it! Omnipotence is invoked!
Q: What is prayer for, what does praying mean?
Lester: Praying is for those who need praying. When you know what you know, -to whom are you praying? If you are That, why do you have to pray to It? See, praying admits duality. I pray to God. Maintain your Oneness. However, when one prays it is best to pray for one thing only, more wisdom, so that you eliminate all need for any prayer, for any asking. It all depends on one's state of understanding. Most people in the world today need to pray. But prayer admits duality, God is out there. And we should know that God is within. Even though Jesus said, The kingdom of God is within, we still look for God without and He's not out there, He's only within. He turns out to be our very own Beingness. The word I with nothing added to it is the God we seek. When you say I am something, -that isn't, or I and something, that too isn't God. But just pure I and only I, that is God. That is why it is said that God is closer than flesh, it's I, and how close is I? It's closer than the flesh is, and that is God, your very own Self!
Q: That's a very good feeling.
Lester: Yes, because it's reminding you of what you know subconsciously, that you are that Self. Just hold onto the word I only, I, I, I, I, and you'll become more exhilarated. Just try it when you're alone. Just I, I, I, and not I am a body, I am a mind, but I I, I, -that feeling of Being. I think the word that describes God more than any other single word is Beingness. God is all Beingness. We are, when we look within, all Beingness pretending we're a tiny part of It, a limited body mind. But when you look within you'll see that you are all Beingness. Beingness is God! Beingness is also Awareness, Consciousness. They are the same thing. Later on, you'll see them as identical: Beingness, Awareness, and Consciousness.
So be your Self and there never will be a problem. Seeing a problem in the world is trying to be a limited ego-body-mind. If you think you have a problem, you do. If you'll just accept that God is AU, God is Perfect, that's all there is and look at Perfection, that's all you'll ever meet with!
Q: Then we have to wipe out the word problem.
Lester: Yes. You have to wipe out the words problem, can't, don't, won't, all negative words. In the future when man is in a state of harmony all these words will disappear.
Q: As you progress more on the path so many things seem so much more superficial. I don't know if that's progress or if I'm becoming indifferent to the world around me.
Lester: Well, that also is progress, being indifferent, i.e., non-attached.
Q: I really couldn't care less about politics or all these things which at one time seemed so important. Is that bad?
Lester: How does it feel?
Q: I haven It analyzed the feeling, I've just seen that all these people think what they're doing is so important, maybe I'm wrong in that I don't feel that way.
Lester: No, you are right. The higher you go the more you see the Perfection and therefore the less you see the problems. The more one sees problems, the lower one is. What youre talking about is problems. The people who see them want you to be the way they are, and will ten you that you're wrong. This is one thing you must be on guard against. As you grow those who are not up to you will try to pull you down to where they are. Let them think you are wrong. You know you are right! Don't argue. It's fruitless.
Q: I find that the people try to make me feel selfish because I feel that way. I don't know whether that's true or not, that's why I wanted to discuss it.
Lester: It's this way, when you don't think the way they think, they call you selfish. Just check it out. This is what's going on, this is the way they think. When you don't think the way they think you are selfish. No, it's not how much you recognize a problem that shows unselfishness. It's how much you see that there is no problem and help others to see it that shows unselfishness. This way you offer help, you're very constructive and unselfish.
Q: Just do everything with a desire to help and that is love.
Lester: Yes, just feel love, you don't necessarily have to do. Love, -and your thoughts are positive. Thought is far more powerful than action. It's the basis of and effects action. It's the initiator, comes before it and determines action. A realized being sitting in a cave somewhere all by himself is doing more good for the world than organizations of action. He is aiding everyone, his help being subconsciously received by all.
Now we're back to what we were talking about before: the bottom state is inaction, the middle state is action, the top state is inaction. The bottom state is one of apathetic inertia. It's destructive. It just wants to stop everything, actually destroy everything. The top state lets everything be just the way it is because everything is perfect and one in this state mentally and powerfully projects this to everyone. The middle state is the action state which moves you up from the bottom toward the top state of equilibrium. Now, as you move up, those who are not as far along as you are will try to pull you down to where they are.
Q: So, it's sort of a proving ground, or a testing, to see how much those things bother you.
Lester: Yes. It tests your conviction. Where is your conviction if you go with them? If you go with them your tendency is to believe more the way they do.
Q: Which is easier, I know.
Lester: No, try it. If you think it's easier, just go their way and you'll have more misery as they do.
Q: Sometimes 1 think it's easier to just be one of the mob.
Lester: Desire for ego approval makes it seem easier. You'll find out otherwise. You've been one of the mob, haven't you? You've been like them. It's not easy. No, the right way is easier. Do you see that? The right way is letting go and letting God and then everything falls into line perfectly, -no effort. But when I have to do it, it's not God, it's me, the ego, wanting to do, to change things, correct this world, and so forth.
Q: Would a mantra or something like that be the best thing to remember when these things come up that way?
Lester: Affirmations are always good. A mantra is an affirmation that's repeated again and again. Do whatever will help you to do and be what you think you should do and be.
Q: That's what I don't know.
Lester: To seek who and what you are, to know your Self, is the very best thing to do and be. There've been moments when you've let go and felt your real Self. How does it feel?
Q: Marvelous, could I have it all the time?
Lester: Yes, certainly, stay that way, that's all. Be what you are! You're infinite, omniscient, and omnipotent, right here and now. BE THAT! Stop being this limited, miserable, little ego.
Q: Well, I have the same problem he has and I thought I was' becoming indifferent.
Lester: Yes, you're becoming indifferent to the negativity, and what's wrong with that? What is politics? It's a mechanism of force and control. In a society where everyone loves everyone do you need politics? If you want to help the world, help yourself grow, and you'll do far more than you could by being involved in politics. The more you're capable of loving, the more you're helping the world. Parliments cannot right the world, but enough people loving can. The President of the United States must necessarily represent the sum total consciousness, the sum total thinkingness, of all the people of the United States added together. Principle, divine law supersedes man-made law. Consciousness, thinkingness determines everything. The world out there is only our collective consciousness. If we dont like whats happening to us in the world, all we have to do is change our consciousness, -and the world out there changes for us!
Q: But doesn't this sort of thing take a great deal of courage many times? Sometimes I don't really have the guts to be able to do the things I want to do.
Lester: Alright, why don't you have the guts?
Q: I don't know.
Lester: Ego. You want approval from them. You're seeking their approval; you want to go the way they want you to go.
Q: It isn't that I want their approval; I don't want their disapproval.
Lester: Well, isn't that the same thing?
Q: I remember what you said last time: when you resolve a problem it doesn't come up again, and it's true. But then you get new ones. When you have solved something within your own mind and you know that you have come up a step on the ladder, it doesn't present itself again, which is a great help. But then there are always new problems.
Lester: There's no end to problems in the world. You go on and on forever and ever solving problems in the world, and you'll have more and more. As long as you are conscious of problems they exist. Only when you discover the real you, are there no problems!
What we do is we put our hand in a fire and say, Ouch, it's hot, my hand is burning. Boy, do I have a problem. That's all. When you see that you are doing it, you stop. If you have a problem, you're putting your hand into a problem and yelling, It hurts! and acting as though you're not putting your hand into it. You act as though you are not doing it. But you are. That problem is in your consciousness. It's in your mind. Change your mind, change your consciousness and immediately that problem is no more. Try it and you'll see that it's so.
Q: Last year when we were all together we were higher and we had fewer problems.
Lester: That's the prime purpose of coming together as a group. You're reminded of your direction. You're with people who are striving in that same direction and you're moving opposite to the way the world is moving. So keep positive company as much as possible. And when you are by yourself stop being what you are not, a limited body and mind, and just be what you are an Infinite, totally free, grand and glorious being, whole and complete.
How to see the ego? Every time there is a reaction to anyone or anything that reaction is ego motivated. Look within for the ego motivation and when you see it, let go of it. Each time an ego motivation is seen, the ego is weakened. To see ego motivation is to feel it, not just see it intellectually. The more it hurts, the more we are involved ego- wise.
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This Session was recorded in New York City, September 14, 1984.
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