《终极自由之路》36.你就是那

星空

翻译：小粒子儿大天体

At some level, everyone is aware of the infinite being that he is. Are you aware of the "I" that you are? The word "I, "-that's it, -the beingness part of you, but it's only the beingness part. If you experience "I am, "-that's it. That part of you is infinite. And you are experiencing it all the time. There's no time when you are not experiencing it, -otherwise you'd go out of existence.
在某种程度上，每个人都知道自己所是的无限存在。你知道你所是的“我”吗？“我”这个字，就是它，就是你存在的部分，但仅仅是存在的部分。如果你说“我是”，那也是它，那部分的你是无限的。你一直都在体验它，无时无刻不在体验它，否则你就不存在了。

However, you override it and hide it from yourself by saying "I am a body." And what you're doing is that you are saying "I, the infinite being, am this body." So, if you use the word "I" you're talking of the infinite being that you are. Every time you say "I am something," you're saying "I, the infinite being, am a limited something." And being Infinite, It allows you to assume limitation, as much as you want. That's why you can do such a good job of limiting yourself. Does that make sense?
然而，你通过说“我是一具身体”来掩盖它。你说“我，这无限的存在，是这具身体”。所以，如果你用“我”这个字，你是在谈论你所是的无限存在；但是每当你说“我是…”时，你是在说“我，这无限的存在，是有限的…”。无限的存在允许你如你想要的那样假设自己是有限的。这就是为什么你可以任意限制自己的原因。我说的有道理吗？

Q: Yes.
问：是的

Lester: We can drive ourselves into such extreme limitation that we think were a victim of our environment and subject to it. And it is an infinite being doing that!
答：我们可以把自己圈进如此极端的限制中，以致于我们认为自己是周遭环境的受害者，并受制于它。而那却是无限的存在所做的！

Q: Why do we not realize our unlimited being?
问：为什么我们意识不到我们的无限存在？

Lester: We have the conviction that we can't do it. If we were not convinced that we couldn't do it, we could do it quickly, even in a moment. How long should it take one with all knowledge, all power to recognize that he is all knowledge, all power? No time! And each one of us is that all powerful, all knowing individual. It seems so hard, almost impossible, only because we won't do it. That's why it I s so difficult, - we won't do it!
答：因为我们深信自己做不到。如果不是这样的话，我们可以立刻体认到自己的无限存在。让一个全知全能的存在知道自己是全知全能的，能花多长时间呢？一瞬间的事！我们每个人都是全知全能的个体。看起来很难，几乎不可能，仅仅是因为我们不会那样去做。这就是为什么它如此之难的原因——我们不会去做！

You hold the concept that you are a body, rather than that you are an infinite, unlimited being. As long as you hold to that concept, you're stuck with it. You don't look at the other, the opposite side of you, which is unlimited.
你抓着你是一具身体的概念不放。只要你一直抓着那个概念不放，你就会卡在那里。你就不会去看别的，不会去看你那无限的另一面。

Q: Well then, could you say that the only thing between us and realization is a thought, really?
问：你同意我们和开悟之间仅仅是隔着一个念头吗？

Lester: Yes, that's it. It is a thought that is the culmination of much thought.
答：是的，就是那样。只需一个念头，就能终结无数个念头。

If you would just examine how your thoughts flow after I tell you that you are unlimited, you would discover that immediately you dive right into the thoughts of being a limited body. When I say that each one of you is infinite, unlimited, right now, - at that moment you get a feel of it. Are you aware of the feel that you get as I say it? Right now, everyone here is infinite, unlimited, omnipotent, omniscient, and omnipresent. When I say that to you, for that instant you feel it, but the next moment you think you are the body, and immediately take your full attention off what you really are and put it on the concept of being only the body with all its affiliations.
如果你在我告诉你“你是无限的”之后，检查一下你的念头如何流动的话，你会发现随即你就堕入了成为一具有限身体的念头 。当我说你们每个人都是无限的那一刻，你们感觉到了它。但在下一刻，你认为你是这具身体，这把你全部的注意力从你的本然迅速拉回到成为有限身体的概念上。

All right, now that you have heard this why dont you stop doing this to yourselves.
现在你知道了为什么你停止那样去做的原因。

(Interruption: Two people arrive and enter the room, causing much conversation.)
（打断一下：有两个人进入这个房间，引发更多的谈话。）

You have an example right now of what I've been talking about. Can you see what just happened? If what I said had been held on to, you would not have been distracted by the newcomers; the people would have come in and quietly sat down and nothing would have been said. But we're so interested in bodies that we immediately gravitate toward them. This is the problem, - our persistence in being bodies. Every moment we hold that we are limited bodies. What you need to do is stop doing just that. Will you do it? If you do, you will see the infinite being that you are.
现在有个例子，可以证明我所说的。你意识到刚才发生了什么吗？如果你被我所说的吸引的话，就不会注意到新来者的到来。他们会进来，安静地坐下，不会引发场内的任何骚动。但是我们对身体的兴趣如此之大，以致于我们立刻就被他们所吸引。这就是问题所在——我们执着于身体。每一刻我们都坚信我们是有限的身体。我们要做的是停止继续那样。你会停止吗？如果是的话，你会看到你所是的无限存在。

It's really simple, but seems extremely difficult. Not only difficult but impossible, doesn't it? It is, only because we just don't do it, and that makes it impossible. Weve heard these things again and again and again. But what use is it listening to this, - if we don't do it? And, as I said, being infinite, there isn't anyone here who couldn't be the infinite being he is right here and now, -if only he would do it. So, what you need to do is to get with yourself, look at yourself, and do it. And it's that simple.
真的很简单，但看起来非常难，不仅难而且不可能。因为我们不会去做，所以这让它成为不可能。我们已经无数次地听到这些东西了，但如果仅仅是听而不去做的话，又有什么用呢？我之前说过，这里的每个人没有谁无法在此时此地回归他所是的无限存在，只需他去做而已。所以，真的很简单，你只需要和自己在一起，看看自己，去那样做吧。

How many of you women go about every day trying to discover that you're a female? None. Who of you men go about every day trying to discover that you are a male? Why don't you? Why dont you people want to be told that? Because you accept it without any doubt whatsoever. But you do not accept that you are infinite. Why not? Why play the game of limitation and be miserable? Why? I'm asking you' the questions now instead of you asking me.
你们女人有几个试着在每一天去发现你是个女人？一个都没有。你们男人有几个呢？你们为什么不试着去发现呢？因为你们对此深信不疑。但你们却不相信你们是无限的。为什么？为什么还要玩限制的游戏，还要痛苦呢？现在轮到我问你们，而不是你们问我。

You believe you're infinite. Why dont you be what you are, instead of this constant trying to be the limited body? The body is a very cramped thing to be and it hurts. Lifetime in and lifetime out. Why do you insist on being so cramped and incapacitated, as everyone is, if one is a physical body? Compared to what one really is, - infinite, unlimited and totally free, it is ridiculous, isn't it?
你相信你是无限的。为什么不回归你的所是，非要继续成为有限的身体呢？身体是非常受限、容易受伤的东西。为什么生生世世你都要坚持受限，坚持无能呢，而你的本然却是无限而自由的存在？这不是很荒谬吗？

Maybe someone might want to answer the question, "Why dont you be what you are, - infinite?"
也许有人想要回答这个问题——为什么你不回归你所是的无限存在？

Q: What does it feel like to be infinite?
问：无限的感觉是怎样的？

Lester: Absolutely no limitation in any direction whatsoever. No limitations, total freedom from everything, - needing no food, no oxygen, no job. Instantly materializing anything you want. Being anywhere in the universe. Being as tall as you want, or the size of an atom. Being at perfect peace and contentment, Being in the most delightful state possible.
答：无论在哪一方面都完全自由、不受限——不需要食物，不需要氧气，不需要工作。想要什么就能在瞬间显化。宇宙中的任何一个地方都能到达。想要变得多大就多大，多小就多小，哪怕小到一粒原子那么大。全然的宁静、满足和喜悦。

Q: What happens to this body when that happens?
问：那个时候身体发生了什么？

Lester: To really know that you should experience what you are. Otherwise the reality on the body can It be understood.
答：想要真正知道的话就去经验你的所是，因为头脑无法理解。

When you see what you are, only then do you know what the body is. It turns out to be a thought. A thought just like in a night dream, when you dreamed about being a body in a situation. And when you awoke you said. "Oh my gosh, that was all in my mind." The same thing happens to this body when you wake up from this dream, called the waking state. You see the body, but you know it to be the dream, nature that it is.
只有当你了悟你是什么时，你才能知道身体是什么。身体只是一个念头，如同一场夜梦，你梦到自己是一具身体。当你醒来时，你说：“哦天啊，这一切都只是在我的头脑中。”同样地，当你觉醒后，你会发现身体只是一场梦。你看到身体，但却知道它只是一场梦。

Do you see how much you're concerned about the body? And this point I make: Be as concerned about your infinite being as you are about your body and, if you are, you will discover that you are infinite.
你知道你有多关注这具身体吗？我建议你们像关注你的身体一样关注你的无限存在。如果你能做到，你会发现你是无限的。

Q: What I really meant was, when you are away doing these things, how does this body function?
问：我的真正意思是：当你关注无限存在时，身体如何运转呢？

Lester: Automatically. However, you can't be away from the "I" that you are. You're right where your "I" is. When you say "I," that's where you are. You can't get away from it, ever. The individuality never leaves you, you never leave it. The "I" that you are always is, -it's eternal. That's the real Being that you are.
答：自动运转。然而，你无法远离你所是的“我”。你就在你的“我”所在的地方。当你说“我”时，那就是你的所在。你永远都无法离开它。个体性无法离开你，你无法离开个体性。你所是的“我”是永恒的，那是你的真实存在。

All right now, if you will be that "I," and only that "I, then everything will turn out to be like a dream. And when you see it full, a dream that never really was. It's the same as when you wake up from a nightmare. A good allusion to what we are going through now is the nightmare. As long as you remain in it, it's a horrible thing and it's very real. It only becomes unreal to you after you awaken, Right? The exact same thing happens to this waking state dream when we wake up from it. We first say, "Oh my gosh, it was all a dream," and then we add, that never really was." And that's what happens to your body. You then see it as a dream body.
现在，如果你会是那个“我”，并且只是那个“我“，那么一切都会变成是一场梦。当你看清它的全貌时，你会发现梦从来都不是真的。当你从一场噩梦中醒来时，也会发生同样的情况。而我们正在经历的就是一场噩梦。只要你还在噩梦中，它对你而言就是真实而可怕的。只有当你醒来时，它才会变得不真实。当我们从这场生死大梦中醒来时，也会是同样的情况。我们首先会说：“哦天啊，一切都只是一场梦。”然后我们补充道：“它从来都不是真的。”你会以同样的方式看待你的身体，你将它视为梦中的身体。

Your body will change but you never will change. You don't disappear; you don't lose anything; you just take on more and more until you see yourself first, as every being, as every body, then as every atom in the universe. There's no reason to fear losing your body, or losing anything. You gain more and more until you become infinite. Yet, most of us are fearful lest we're going to lose our body and be nothing. That's a serious error. You could be a hundred bodies!
你的身体会变化，但你却永不改变。你不会消失，不会失去任何东西，相反地只会得到更多，直到你把所有存在、所有身体以及所有原子看成是你自己。没有理由害怕失去你的身体或任何东西。你得到的越来越多，直到你彻底回归无限。但是，我们大多数人都害怕自己会失去身体，会变成虚无。那是个严重的错误。你可以是千百具身体！

Q: If you think of the body in terms of beingness
问：如果你把身体看成是你的存在的话？

Lester: If 'you do, you're committing a gross crime against the word "beingness." Beingness is the infinity that you are. Your beingness is infinite. Your being a body is an extreme limitation in your beingness.
答：如果那样的话，你是在对“存在”这个词实施严重的犯罪。存在是你所是的无限。你的存在是无限的。身体对你的存在而言，是个极端的限制。

Q: We think of body in terms of limitation; that's the ordinary concept of body.
问：我们以为身体是个限制，这个观点并不新奇。

Lester: Right, which means we have to let go of the concept: The body is I. As long as we hold that, we are holding the concept: I am an extreme limitation, -a physical body.
答：对，这意味着我们要释放“身体是我”这个概念。只要我们抱持那个概念，我们就是在抱持“我是极端的限制——一具物理身体”的概念。

Any slight maladjustment in it and it dies. And every one knows that it does, sooner or later. What's this great thing called a body? It's a very disposable thing and everyone knows that sooner or later he will dispose of it, right? But gosh, how we hold on to this limitation! And keep ourselves in extreme confinement!
任何轻微的失调都能导致身体的死亡。每个人都知道身体早晚都会死。这伟大的所谓的身体是个什么东西？它是个一次性用品，每个人都知道早晚他都会丢弃它。但是上帝啊，我们是多么执着于这个限制啊，并且一直把自己囚禁于此！

We are like a bird in a cage, with the door open, refusing to fly out, - free!
我们就像笼中鸟，门开着，但我们却拒绝出去——拒绝自由！

Q: Well, this sense of beingness, infinite beingness, is far more concrete than our present sense of body, is it not?
问：这种存在感，无限的存在，远比身体的感觉更真实，是吧？

Lester: It should be. This is what, in effect, I'm saying. If you just hold on to your sense of beingness, and just hold that, and not add "this body is I,"- just hold on to your beingness only, and hold it, and hold it, -you'll be letting go of the feeling that the body is I. And you'll get an insight into this beingness, as to what it is, and then you will remain in it. Then your beingness is very concrete to you and your body is like a dream body.
答：应该是。这实际上就是我所说的。如果你只是坚持你的存在感，并且不附加“这具身体是我”的话，你就会释放掉“这具身体是我”的感觉。你能看到存在本身，并且一直待在存在之中。那时你的存在对你而言就会非常真实，而身体则像梦中的身体一样虚幻。

When you are only beingness you recognize that your beingness is all beingness. I say that everyone here is, right now, that infinite beingness. And the infinite part of you is the "I," the beingness of the "I," the "I am." And that if you would hold that, that would become real and concrete to you, and all the limitation, misery, and trouble of the body would automatically be gone.
当你只是存在时，你会意识到你的存在就是一切存在。我说此时此地的每个人都是无限的存在。你那无限的部分就是“我”，“我”的存在，“我是”的存在。如果你能坚持它，它对你而言就会变得真实，并且身体所有的限制、痛苦和麻烦都会自动消失。

Q: I've had a few glimpses of that but holding it is a different thing.
问：我曾有几次瞥见它，但是保持它却是另外一回事。

Lester: The reason why you don't hold it is because you are holding on to the body being you.
答：你之所以无法保持它的原因是你执着于把这具身体当作是你。

Q: The thing is that this beingness cannot be conceived of with the mind, can it?
问：问题是存在无法用头脑来想象，是吗？

Lester: Right. However, you don't have to conceive of it if you are it. Do you have to conceive of being a male? Just only be it.
答：对。然而，如果你是存在的话，根本不必想象它。难道你需要想象自己是个男人？只是“是”而已。

Q: But this metamorphosis, this change that must take place within the individual, requires some intellectualization at first?
问：但是这种蜕变必须是在个体之内发生，一开始是需要理智的？

Lester: The intellect directs you toward looking away from what you are not and looking at what you are. In that sense, you're right. We ask "What am I?" and that's intellectual. However, the answer is an experience.
答：理智把你的视线从你的所不是那里移开，转到你的所是上。从那方面来讲，你是对的。我们问“我是什么”，这是头脑的东西。然而，答案却是体验的产物。

Q: Now this is what I was getting at. When does this intellectualization of the infinite stop and you realize it as it is?
问：我的意思就是这样。当对存在的这种头脑式理解停止时，你才能如是地看到它。

Lester: When your thinking quiets enough, you then see what you are and it becomes real to you.
答：当你的头脑足够安静时，你会看到你的本然，那时它对你而言才会变得真实。

Q: But you're not conscious of that transition?
问：但你不会意识到这种转变？

Lester: You're conscious of letting go of the concepts of limitation. Discovering the infinite Being that you are is no transition, because you are that now; you always have been and always will be That. So there can't be any transition there. It's the letting go of the thoughts of limitation that is a transition.
答：你会意识到你释放了限制性信念。发现你所是的无限存在不是一种转变，因为你本来就是并且一直都是无限存在。所以不可能有转变存在。释放限制性念头才是转变所在。

Q: Isn't it difficult for one to think of his inner being as infinite?
问：对一个人来说，认为自己的内在存在是无限的，不是很难吗？

Lester: In your thinking, it's impossible, only experience it. You can.
答：对你的头脑来说是不可能的。唯有体验。

Q: And yet it's real; you do come into it; there's no doubt about it.
问：但当你真正地进入它时，它无疑是真实的。

Lester: Yes, sooner or later. When you get so fed up with torturing yourself, you then let go of all the nonsense, and you'll be what you really are,- infinite. Now, most people on earth will take millions of years to do this, and you can see why. When we take into account all people, you're very advanced; and look how much you are holding on to being only that body! Your questions and talk relate mostly to the body, its transition, and what happens to the body.
答：对，或早或晚。当你受够了自我折磨时，你就会释放所有这些扯淡的东西，回归你真正的所是——无限。地球上的大多数人会花费无数劫的时间来回归无限，你知道为什么。与所有人相比，你算是比较超前的。但是看看你对这具身体有多执着！你的问题和讨论大多是关于身体的，身体的转变，以及发生在这具身体上的事情。

I'm hoping to provoke you into letting go of identifying with the body, by telling you it's impossible to be infinite because you insist upon being the body. And so long as you persist in being the body, it is impossible. You're stuck. And you could remain this way for millions of years.
我告诉你身体不可能是无限的，是希望能够刺激你释放掉对身体的认同，因为你坚持成为这具身体。只要你坚持那么做，你是不可能回归无限的，你会卡住，卡上个无数劫。

Have you ever accepted the concept that you have no limitations?
你是否已经接受“你是无限的”这个概念？

Q: I've accepted the idea intellectually, but obviously not in practice.
问：头脑上接受了，但显然实际并非如此。

Lester: Yes, and because you believe you are a body, it is impossible to be infinite. These bodies are very frail things, and they don't last very long, either. And we insist and persist in being the body. Now any time anyone decides, really decides, not to be it, -then he will allow himself to see his infinite beingness.
答：是的，因为你相信你是一具身体，那就不可能回归无限。身体是很脆弱的东西，它们不会存活太久。但我们却坚持成为身体。任何人任何时候只要下了真正的决心，决心不再成为身体，那么他就会允许自己看到他的无限存在。

What do we do twenty-four hours a day? We cater to the body; we think we are it! We wake it up in the morning, we wash it, we dress it, we beautify it; we send it off to work so it can earn some money, so that we can put some other life (food) into it so it can rot (digest) that life inside so that it can persist. And then we go home and we park it for the evening. It is such a wonderful life that we have to escape from it; every night we have to go unconscious, that is, sleep. And this we repeat day in and day out, life in and life out, - until we decide that we are not the body, that we are more than the body, that we are infinite beingness.
我们每天24小时都在干吗？我们喂养这具身体，因为我们认为我们就是它！我们每天早上醒来，洗刷它，给它穿衣服，让它变漂亮，我们把它送去工作，让它挣些钱，以便我们能够把其它生命（食物）往它里面塞，然后让这些生命在它里面腐烂（消化），这样它才能存活。晚上我们回到家，把它放到床上。多么美好的生活啊，以致于我们不得不逃离它，每天夜里我们不得不进入无意识——睡觉。每一天，每一年，每一世，我们都在重复这样的生活，直到我们决心不再成为这具身体，而是超越这具身体，回归我们所是的无限存在。

It is really simple. The difficulty of it is the holding on to wanting to be the body. We are constantly saying. "I am the body; I am not infinite." And, of course, we can't feel the unlimited joy or happiness that we're seeking by cramping ourselves into a little body that's frail and perishable.
真的很简单。困难只是在于我们坚持成为这具身体。我们总是说“我是这具身体，我不是无限的”。当然，我们也就无法感受到我们所一直寻求的无限喜悦，因为我们把自己困在一具脆弱而易烂的小小身体里。

Q: What do you mean when you say we have such a wonderful life that we have to go unconscious?
问：你说“多么美好的生活啊，以致于我们不得不逃离它”，是什么意思？

Lester: This life, that we think is so great, we cannot take twenty-four hours a day; for about eight hours every day we have to escape it through the unconscious state of being asleep.
答：我们所认为的美好生活，却不能每天24小时都享受，因为每天8小时我们都不得不通过睡觉时的无意识状态来逃离它。

Q: While asleep, where am I? Why can't I remember?
问：睡觉时我在哪儿？为什么我记不起来？

Lester: Because you believe you can't. The reason is that you dont want to, because, unless you relate to the physical body and world, you believe you are a void. However, notice the fact that, although you drop the physical body and world in sleep, you still exist, dont you?
答：因为你相信你不能。你不想记起来，因为你相信如果你与这身体和世界脱离关系的话，你就会消失。然而你要注意到，即使你在睡觉时放开这身体和世界，你也依然存在，不是吗？

Sleep is an escape from this wonderful world of ours. As we go up into higher states of beingness, we all reach a place where we don't sleep any more. When we do not dislike the world, there is no need to go to sleep.
睡觉就是对这美好世界的逃离。当我们到达更高的存在境界时，我们不再需要睡觉。因为当我们真的喜欢这个世界时，就不再有对睡觉的需求了。

I want to point out how wonderful this world is. How wonderful is it, if we have to escape from it every night? So let go of it and be what you are. Be infinite. Stop looking at the world and look at the "I that I am," and keep your attention on the "I that I am" until you see it fully, and you 'n drop being only a physical body with all the limitation associated with it.
我要指出这个世界到底有多好。如果你每天夜里都不得不逃离这个世界的话，它对你来说能有多好呢？所以释放这个世界吧，回归你所是的无限存在。不要再看这个世界，把你的目光转向“我所是的我”，一直看着它，直到你看清它的全貌，那时你就会释放掉对这具身体以及它所带来的限制的执着。

Q: We keep imagining that this little limited life brings us happiness, and that helps keep us bound, doesn't it?
问：我们总是想象这有限的小小身体能够带给我们幸福，这让我们陷在其中无法自拔，是吧？

Lester: Yes, so why do it? Everyone is seeking the infinite being that he is. You call it happiness, happiness with no sorrow. It is your Self, your beingness. Why not just be it? Why don't you do it?
答：是的，所以为什么不释放对它的执着呢？每个人都是在寻求他所是的无限存在，你称它为“幸福”，“没有痛苦的幸福”。它就是你的真我，你的存在。所以为什么不回归它呢？为什么？

Q: Well. I guess we don't want it badly enough; were afraid to go all out.
问：我想是因为我们想要它的程度还不够，我们害怕放手。

Lester: That's it,-you don't want it enough. You want to be the limited body with all its adjuncts of limitation, sickness, trouble and finally death. Ridiculous, isn't it?
答：对，就是因为你还不够想要它。你想要成为有限的身体以及它所带来的一切限制，包括疾病、麻烦以及最终的死亡。很荒谬不是吗？

If it was the most important thing in your life, it wouldn't take long to become That. But we all have our side tracks that keep us going in all directions.
如果它是你生命中最重要的东西，很快你就能成为“那”。但是我们却坚持往错误的方向狂奔。

That's it. We really don't want this knowledge of our unlimited state, right? Therefore our attention is in the other directions.
我们真的不想要有关无限的体认，不是吗？因此我们的注意力总是放在别处。

Q: It's unlimited, we know this intellectually, but do you think we have a resistance, not knowing exactly what is there for us?
问：我们头脑上是知道无限的，但是你不认为我们会有抗拒吗，因为真的不知道等在那里的是什么？

Lester: Yes, and no. You know you're infinite and you're seeking it. In your every act every day you're seeking this infinite being that you are. You call it happiness. If you would trace happiness down to its source, you would discover that there is no happiness in external things or people. Happiness is something you experience within. And it's there all the time if you just don't cut it off by making it dependent on someone liking you, or on your getting gold. Once I say, "In order for my inner happiness to be, I must have gold. I cut off that happiness unless I get gold. So we're cutting off that unlimited happiness and saying it's in the world, in tiny bits, while all the time it's unlimited right within us, not out there in the world. But, as you said, we're so convinced that it's in the world that our attention is in directions other than on the infinite Being that we are. If we really wanted to see this infinite Being that we are, our attention would be there all the time.
答：是的，也不是。你知道你是无限的，你一直都在寻求它。在你每天的每个行为中，你都在寻求你所是的无限存在。你称它为“幸福”。如果你究其根源的话，你会发现它不在外在的人事物那里。幸福是你内在的体验，它一直都在那里。如果你相信幸福来自某个喜欢你的人或是来自财富的话，你就会切断幸福。一旦我说“为了内在的幸福，我必须得到金子”，那么如果我得不到，我就切断了幸福。所以我们切断了那无限的幸福，因为我们说它在这个世界里，在有限的东西里，而实际上它一直都是无限的，一直都在我们的内在。但是，如你之前所说，我们是如此相信它来自外在，以致于我们的注意力都不在我们所是的无限存在上。如果我们真的想要看到我们所是的无限存在，我们的注意力就会一直在那里。

Q: And we could be That right at that moment!
问：在那一刻我们就能成为“那”！

Lester: Right. At that moment, or soon, or in a month or two. But I say you are condemned to millions of years of misery if you persist in being the body.
答：对。在那一刻，或者一两个月后。但若你坚持成为这具身体的话，你注定经受百万年的痛苦。

Q: If one experiences very intense misery where everything seems to be cut off. -an awakening can come out of this sometimes, can't it?
问：如果一个人正在经受极端的痛苦，一切都变得无望的话，有时觉醒会在那种情况下发生，是吗？

Lester: Oh yes. That's the way we usually do it. When we are in the direction of limitation we keep making ourselves more and more limited, until we go to extremes and think we are in danger of becoming incapacitated with something severe; with sickness or death. Then, with our determination, which everyone has, we say, "To hell with this!" and we go in the right direction. However, we could and should go in the right direction because of the wonderfulness of it.
答：是的。通常我们都是那样的。当我们走在限制的方向上，我们会让自己变得变来越受限，直到限制达到极点，我们认为自己已经无能为力，比如濒临死亡时，那时我们才会下决心，我们说“去他妈的”。然后我们拐到正确的方向上。然而，我们可能并且应该走在正确的方向上，因为它是如此美妙。

Q: I think the tendency often is to try to contact the infinite and then use it to make this finite life comfortable, pleasant, prosperous and things like that.
问：我想我们总是倾向于和无限产生联系，然后利用它让有限的生活变得舒适、愉快和繁荣什么的。

Lester: Right. We try to contact our unlimited power and then use it to make a better body and world. We can make the body and world better, but we cannot achieve sustained happiness, because being subject to this body and world is being subject to limitation and non-freedom.
问：对。我们试图连接我们的无限力量，利用它让身体和世界变得更好。我们是可以这样，但那无法让我们获得持久的幸福，因为受制于身体和世界就是受制于限制，受制于不自由。

Q: But getting rid of your body isn't going to help much though, is it?
问：但是摆脱身体没什么用，不是吗？

Lester: I'm not suggesting you do. Until you can consciously leave your body, if you forcibly got rid of your body, you would just come back again through the womb and wait twenty years while growing up, before starting again to learn that you Ire not the body. So forcibly dropping the body would be a very wrong thing to do. But to show you how much you think you are the body, just ask yourself how close could you come to throwing your body out on the highway and letting cars run over it. This will show you how convinced you are that your body is you.
答：我不是建议你摆脱身体。除非你能有意识地离开你的身体，否则如果你是被迫脱离身体的话，你还是得回来，通过一个子宫，然后再等上个二十年，等你长大后，你开始再次明白你不是这具身体。所以被迫脱离身体是非常严重的错误。但是为了让你明白你有多么相信你是这具身体，问问你自己如果把你的身体丢到高速公路上，让车子从你的身上碾过，你会是何种感觉时，你会发现你是多么相信你的身体是你。

Q: Is it our unconscious mind that prevents us from being our infinity?
问：是我们的无意识头脑阻止我们回归我们的无限吗？

Lester: It's you, making your thoughts unconscious. I say it's you; it's not your mind. Or, if you want to argue it, show me this mind you are talking about. Where is it? And how is it holding you back? Does it have a life other than you? Is it other than you? What is this thing?
答：是你，让你的念头变成无意识。我说那是你，不是你的头脑。或者如果你想反驳的话，告诉我你所说的头脑在哪里？它是怎么拖你后腿的？它除了活在你那里还活在哪里？它难道不是你吗？它到底是什么东西？

You're preventing yourself, whether via the mind, via the body, or via anything. You are doing it. It's important that you take full responsibility because, if you don't, you will never get out of this trap.
是你在阻碍你自己，无论通过头脑、身体还是别的什么。是你在做。你必须为此负起全责，这是关键所在，因为如果你不负责的话，你永远都无法脱离这个困局。

Q: I understand that it is something that we have created ourselves, but it has reached such a proportion!
问：我知道头脑是我们自己创造的某个东西，但它已经变得如此顽固。

Lester: Not it, it is you who have reached such a proportion. So long as you blame something else, you'll never get out of it, You're doing it. Can't you see that you cannot undo your limitation as long as you'll not take responsibility for it? No matter what you call it, whether you call it mind, or body, you are doing it.
答：不是它，是你自己已经变得如此顽固。只要你还在推卸责任，你永远都无法脱离困局。是你在阻碍你自己。你难道不明白只要你不为此负责的话，你就无法消除你的限制吗？不管你称它为什么，头脑也好，身体也好，都是你在阻碍你自己。

Q: I am taking responsibility for it, because I'm trying to do something about it.
问：我在为此负起责任，因为我正在做一些努力。

Lester: O.K. As long as you say, "I'm taking responsibility," that's all right. But when you say, "It is the mind," you are not taking responsibility for it; then the mind is responsible, not you. Do you see that?
答：那就好。只要你说“我在负责”，那就是对的。但若你说“那是头脑的缘故”，你就是在推卸责任，头脑反倒成了罪魁祸首，而不是你。明白了吗？

Q: Well, I'm responsible for it; it's my creation.
问：我对此有责任，因为那是我的造物。

Lester: Right. Whose mind is it? It's yours.
答：对。那是谁的头脑？你的。

Q: But still, it has become a sort of Frankenstein's monster that's gotten out of hand. And isn't that what stands in the way?
问：但是，这有点变成了弗兰肯斯坦所创造的怪物。难道不是它在挡路吗？
（弗兰肯斯坦：英国女作家 Mary Wollstonecraft Shelley于1818年所著的小说中的主人公，他是一个年轻的医学研究者，他创造了一个最终毁掉他自己的怪物。）

Lester: No, you do. As long as you think it's something other than you, you have no chance. As you speak now, you are convinced that the mind is doing it, and not you.
答：不，是你。只要你坚持认为不是你在阻碍你自己，你就没有机会。按你现在所说的，你是坚信是头脑在阻碍你，而非你自己。

Q: So we make the mistake that the mind is going to see, and the mind will never see It.
问：所以我们犯了一个错误，我们以为是头脑要知道真相，而头脑永远都无法知道“它”。

Lester: Right!
答：对！

Q: And we're so conditioned to function as mind, that that seems to be the only tool that we know we have, and so we're using the wrong tool.
问：我们是如此依赖于让头脑来替我们工作，头脑似乎成了我们唯一拥有的工具。所以我们是在使用错误的工具。

Lester: Right.
答：对

Q: So, what we need to do is just throw the tool out.
问：所以我们要做的就是把头脑这个工具给扔了。

Lester: Right. Then what's left over is the infinite you. Throw the tool out. It takes no tools to be what you are!
答：对。剩下的就是无限的你。把那工具给扔了。回归你的所是无需任何工具！

Q: That's the mistake; we keep trying to do it with the mind, because that's the only thing we're familiar with.
问：我们之所以试图用头脑来回归无限，是因为它是我们唯一熟悉的东西。

Lester: It's not the only thing you're familiar with; you are so familiar with the "I" that you are. Just the word "I," and that's you, that's not your mind. You have the mind. You are always experiencing this infinite being that you are, and it's the "I." You lose sight of this infinite "I" by identifying the mind and body, as you. Let go of identifying with your body and mind and what is right there in the pure "I," is an infinite being, -you. Simple enough?
答：头脑并非是你唯一熟悉的，你更熟悉你所是的“我”。仅仅是“我”这个字，那就是你，不是你的头脑。头脑只是你所拥有的。你一直都在体验你所是的无限存在，那就是“我”。你通过把你的头脑和身体看成是你，从而你无法看到这无限的“我”。释放你对身体和头脑的认同，剩下的就是纯粹的“我”——你的无限存在。够简单吧？

Q: You say the "I" has been for billions of years. Is the "I" always the same?
问：你说“我”已经存在了无数劫。“我”一直都是一样的吗？

Lester: The "I" that you really are is always the same,-changeless, eternal and perfect.
答：你真正所是的“我”一直都是一样的——不变，永恒，完美。

Q: It has always been the way it is and the way it will be?
问：一直都是如此且永远都会如此吗？

Lester: It has always been that way: perfect; changeless; immortal. And that's why we have the tendency to think of the body that way. We try to make it perfect and immortal, even though we know we can't.
答：一直都是完美、永恒而不朽的。这就是为什么我们总是倾向于让身体变得完美而不朽的原因，即使我们知道我们不能。

Q: Does the body serve a purpose?
问：那么身体有用吗？

Lester: Yes, it hurts; it confines. This serves to redirect you back to seeing that you are infinite. The purpose of having the body is to help you learn that you have no limitation. So you conjured up the extreme limitation called the physical body, in order to learn that you have no limitation. That body is going to hurt more and more as you more and more think that you are it, until someday you say, The heck with it! Then with full determination to see what you really are, you suddenly awaken to what has always been, that you are infinite.
答：是的，它会受伤，会限制。这能引导你重新看清你是无限的。拥有身体的目的就在于帮助你认识到你是无限的，所以你想象出了这具能够带来极端限制的身体。你越认为你是这具身体，它就给你带来越多的痛苦，直到某天你说“去他妈的”。那时你就会下定决心，去看清你到底是什么，突然你就醒来，发现你一直都是无限的存在。

Q: Has the "I" always used the body?
问：“我”一直都在使用身体吗？

Lester: No, the "I" never used the body. The "I" is changeless and perfect. The "I" imagined, dreamed, it used the body. It's an illusion; it's a dream, but while you're in the dream it seems real. Wake up out of this dream. See what you are. That is the thing to do.
答：不，“我”从不使用身体。“我”是不变且完美的。“我”想象、梦见了身体。所以身体只是一个幻象，是一场梦，但因为你在梦中，所以它看起来像是真的。从梦中醒来吧，看清你的本然，这就是你要做的。

Notice how much you ask me questions about the body? Are you aware of that?
有没注意到你总是在问有关身体的问题吗？你注意到了吗？

Q: In order, I guess, to define it.
问：我想我是为了定义它。

Lester: No, you are trying to express your infinity in terms of this extreme limitation. And this is why you're stuck. Reverse it. Let go of the body. Put all your attention on the infinite "I" that you are, and only then do you have a possibility of seeing the infinite "I" that you are. You must let go of the concept of that body being you.
答：不，你试图把你的无限表达成极端的限制。这就是为什么你会卡住的原因。反转它，把身体释放掉。把你所有的注意力都放在你那无限的“我”之上，只有那样你才有可能看清你那无限的“我”。你必须释放身体是你的这个概念。

Q: Pain is a great awakener then, isn't it?
问：痛苦是最好的唤醒者，是吗？

Lester: Yes. However, we're not aware of how much pain there is because we have accustomed ourselves to it and made ourselves immune to the real amount. Because we're infinite beings and we're trying to be this limited body, -it's very painful.
答：是的。然而，我们无从知道痛苦到底有多深，因为我们习惯了痛苦，以致于对它产生了免疫力。我们是无限的存在，却努力成为有限的身体，这本身就是一种痛苦。

And when you awaken from this dream, you'll see how much pain there was. It's almost infinite pain compared to what you really are, - infinite joy.
当你觉醒后，你会发现过去你有多痛苦。那痛苦堪称无限，与你所是的无限喜悦不相上下。

I'm emphasizing that you should be not the body; be not the mind, -just be.
我再强调一次：不要成为这具身体、这颗头脑，回归你的本然。

Q: In meditation, doesn't one use the mind to a certain extent?
问：冥想在某种程度上是对头脑的使用？

Lester: Yes, however meditation is used for quieting the mind. You use the mind to quiet the mind. When the mind is quiet enough this infinite being that you are becomes obvious. That is the whole purpose of meditation. If anyone gets his mind quiet enough, he cannot help but see this infinite being that he is because it's only the thoughts that cover It. And the mind is nothing but thoughts. So, meditation is used to get the mind quieter, until you get it so quiet that you see your Self, youre real Self.
答：是。然而冥想的目的是为了让头脑安静。你用头脑来让头脑安静。当头脑足够安静时，你所是的无限存在会自动显现。这就是冥想的整个目的所在。当你让头脑变得足够安静时，你不想看见“它”都难，因为是念头掩盖了“它”，而头脑就是念头。所以，冥想是为了让头脑越来越安静，直到你看见你的真我。

Q: Would directing the thought toward the infinite be a step to getting there?
问：为了达到那个目的，将念头引向无限是必要的吗？

Lester: Yes. However, it is another thought.
答：是。但那是另一个念头。

Q: It's another thought, but some thoughts are more God-revealing than others, are they not?
问：那是另一个念头，但是有些念头要比其它念头更加显明上帝，不是吗？

Lester: No thought can reveal God. Every thought hides or covers God, your Self. Every thought is a chain; nice thoughts are golden chains. A golden chain will keep you imprisoned just as much as an iron chain. You must undo all thinking. Get the mind quiet. And then quiet enough so the infinite being that you are is self-obvious. It's there all the time; the thoughts are the noise that's covering it. However, if you must have thoughts, a thought in the direction of God is much better than a thought in other directions, as it points you toward God.
答：没有一个念头能够显明上帝。念头只能隐藏或掩盖上帝——你的真我。每个念头都是一条链，好的念头是金链子。金链和铁链一样，都会将你捆住。你必须消除所有的念头，让头脑变得安静。当头脑足够安静时，你所是的无限存在会自动显现。它一直都在那里，念头是掩盖它的噪音。然而，如果你必须要有念头的话，一个将你引向上帝的念头远比其它念头要好。

Q: But if the infinite is non-mind, how can you speak of it as infinite, because infinite is a mental concept.
问：如果无限不是头脑所能理解，那么你怎么能够说它是无限的呢？因为无限是头脑的概念？

Lester: No. No mental thought can be infinite. Every thought is a limitation.
答：不。没有一个头脑的想法是无限的。每个念头都是一个限制。

Q: Then how can you know that you are infinite? How can you vocalize it?
问：那么你怎么知道你是无限的？怎么能够说出它？

Lester: You cannot mentally conceive of infinity nor can you vocalize it. That is impossible. Try it when you're home. It's impossible to conceive of unlimitedness.
答：你既不能想象无限，也无法说出它。那是不可能的。当你回家后你试一下。想象无限那是不可能的。

Q: Well, it's an experience.
问：只能经验？

Lester: Right, it's not a thought; it's an experience, an experience of being infinite. The mind can allude to it but cannot describe it. Any description is necessarily a limitation.
答：对，那不是一个念头，而是一种体验，对无限的体验。头脑能够影射它，但却无法描述它。任何描述都是有限的。

Q: Where does the mind begin and where does the mind end, and where does God begin and where does God end, and where does the infinite begin and where does the infinite end?
问：头脑从何开始，到哪结束？上帝从何开始，到哪结束？无限从何开始，到哪结束？

Lester: God, the Infinite, the Self, has no beginning and has no end. The mind has a beginning when you create it. It has an end when you let it go.
答：上帝，亦即无限，亦即真我，是无始也无终的。在你创造出头脑的时候，它便开始了。而当你释放了它之后，它就终止了。

Q: It seems to be a painful struggle to let it go.
问：释放头脑似乎需要一番痛苦的挣扎。

Lester: You're holding on to it while trying to let go of it. The holding on to it is the pain. Why don't you just be what you are? Why question me on the opposite side, -on the struggle? Why do you talk about it? Because you're interested in it and you would like me to relate the infinite to it.
答：你在释放它的同时又紧紧抓着它。抓着它就是一种痛苦。为什么不能简单点，只是回归你的本然呢？为什么要说释放它是种挣扎呢？为什么要谈论它呢？因为你对它感兴趣，想要我把无限和它联系在一起。

Q: Well then, if, when you think, you just know who is thinking, that takes care of it?
问：如果你只是想谁在想的话，答案会自动呈现？

Lester: Right! Discover who the thinker is and you'll have the answer. When you discover who the one is that has the mind and has the body and does the thinking, you discover the real you, -an infinite being. So look away from the body! look away from the mind! and look toward the beingness that you are and never stop until you fully discover that Thou Art That!
答：对！发现是谁在想，你就找到了答案。当你发现是谁有头脑、有身体，是谁在想的话，你就发现了真正的你——无限的存在。所以不要再看这具身体、这颗头脑！把目光转向你所是的无限存在，直到你彻底地看清“你就是那”！