WORLDLINESS AND SPIRITUALITY? - Keys to the Ultimate Freedom

星空

What is the difference between the divine and the worldly, the spiritual and the material? Is there a difference? Is there a difference between being spiritual and being in the world? There is a tendency for us to separate the two. That is a gross error. There is no difference between the spiritual and the material when we look at it from the viewpoint of Truth.

The difference is in our outlook, in the way we see the world. It's the way you look at it, that's all. You may look at it from the ego point of view, or you may look at it from the Self. A realized person sees the world only as an out-projection of himself; therefore, it really is his creation. And as an out-projection, it's like a cinema screen out there with this whole universe projected on it and which, at will, could be changed or withdrawn. To the one who doesnt see the Truth, this cinema, this moving picture, seems not self-created and as such, one makes himself subject to it and becomes a slave to it.

A Master is very much in the world. A Master has His feet firmly planted on the earth, but He sees the basic substance just behind the apparent world as His very own Self. And when He does that, everything is in harmony, everything is perfect. It is not a matter of separating one from the other, or having one or the other, it's merely seeing the truth of the world. When one does, one is realized. When one doesn't, one is forever shadowboxing with his self-created world of opposition. Both see the world. The Master sees the Truth just behind it and there's nothing but harmony! The unrealized one sees separation and opposition and theres much disharmony! The unrealized person sees it as a thing running him; the realized person sees it as his own projection and therefore he can run it and it cannot run him. Being a Master over it, He resides ever the same, in peace and tranquility, and lives in complete ease all the time.

We must, in our everyday lives, be in that state of tranquility, and until we can be in that state while in the details of daily living, - we haven't reached the top.

So there are no two categories, the world and spirit; its all one and the same. Its just a matter of the way we look at it. We should strive to get to the place where no one and no thing can perturb us. When you get to that state, you are at the top. You are in the world and nothing and no one can disturb you in the slightest. Develop this. Make this a practice. Make this your way of life. Do not react to people; do not become angry, jealous, hateful and so forth. Remain ever the same, ever the same; no matter what happens, no matter what goes on, you really are ever the same, serene and poised.

Q: But. Lester:, when I look at the world. I see differentiation?

Lester: Any time we see any difference, or a difference between the spiritual and the worldly, its because we don't have enough understanding of the spiritual as yet. We are separating. The highest state is when we are in the world and in spirit at one and the same time and there is no difference. When we're there, we don't see it as world and spirit. We see it as one and the same thing; we see a oneness; we see it all as our very own Self; or, If we want, we see the whole world as being within us, as a dream is within us in sleep. No matter what happens in the dream, we remain the same. We see absolutely no difference in anything; there's a singular oneness throughout everything. Nothing changes. Ever-the- same is our feeling.

This can be used as a yardstick to know how far we are on the path. Is everything ever the same? Do things really not change? It is a little shocking when we start examining it from this point of view. How far am I on the path toward seeing the sameness, the Oneness, the no-otherness, the nothing but God, God in all, the God in everyone?

When you accomplish that non - duality, you lose the feeling of separation, of I. If you want to recognize the "apparent" others, you use the word "We." But more than that, you would rather talk about yourself in third person. That is the feeling a Master has. And He talks that way. Certain Masters will not speak of Themselves by name; theyll speak of Themselves in the third person as Their disciples do. For instance, if everyone called me what Ken jokingly calls me, I would talk about Father Divine. Instead of saying "I," "me," or "Lester:," I would talk about him (pointing to himself). Father Divine. That's just the way you feel when you're in the state when all is one and all is the same. You don't identify yourself with just your body.

I've been emphasizing this point because quite a few were asking questions and talking about the two, the world and spirit, not knowing that in Truth they are one.

Q: There is no difference?

Lester: Right. It's one and the same, when you see it aright. If you see it through illusion, if you see it wrongly, you'll see separation; you'll see the differentiation that this is spiritual and that is worldly; that this is divine and that is mundane.

Q: The "Me's" are our ego?

Lester: Yes. The "Me's" are a condescension on the part of a Master in order to communicate with the apparent egos. A Master sees nothing but Masters; specks of infinite light, all looking alike, - blazing effervescent radiant Beings, points of Beingness all being One. This is the way a Master really sees everyone; He doesn't see people the way we see them.

Q: Does He see them as different shades or all one shade?

Lester: Identical points of light, of one ocean of light, brilliant effervescent, emanating, with center everywhere and circumference nowhere. Are you trying to imagine what it I s like?

Q: Well, I had an experience of seeing something like that and it's a light like a bright sun.

Lester: Yes, a bright blazing sun. Masters can see nothing but a Master in us, and at the same time, They can go through the pretense of seeing it otherwise by saying. "Harry. Yes, you do have problems." or, "Harry, you do have a body and you do live in a house," but as They say it, to Them, it's like a dream voice talking, or apparently talking, and it's all an apparency. It's a pretense, - They're actually pretending as Their view of the omnipresent, infinite One never changes.

Q: They are pretending a duality, then, actually, where we're more or less living it?

Lester: Yes. However, we're pretending it too, but we don't know that we're pretending it. A Master pretends it and He knows that he's pretending it. We are ignorant of the fact of our pretense.

Q: In that way He's coming down to our level?

Lester: Yes. And He does it only to help us.

Q: Well, why can't I as a human being say, "I will play a game of baseball"? When I say I'm a baseball player I can make myself subject to all the rules. But I don't have to play baseball. So why can't God say, "I will play the game of being Bob? And then He puts Himself subject to the limitations of Bob as He defines it, as when I play baseball, I make myself subject to the rules. Now, why can't God, to entertain Himself, be a Bob? Or be a Lester:? And be limited in a sense - the thing is, if I play baseball, limit myself to all the rules of being a baseball player. Well then, I will play baseball and have a good time and be Bob.

Lester: God can, - and does, but never forgets He is God! Do you never forget?

Q: Therefore, I am God who is playing Bob and for the moment I forgot?

Lester: You only are if you know that, not if you state it. Stating it, lip- service, doesn't equate with knowing that.

Q: I agree absolutely.

Lester: So theoretically you are right. Now, the important thing is to carry it out practically, -to know your Beingness in God while you are playing the game, to know that you are God and that you are pretending to be limited as a body and so forth.

Q: And any time I don It want to, I don't have to play, and I don't have to take that particular step of being limited because I am the creator of the game; I make the rules and I don't have to play anymore than I have to playa baseball game. I can quit just like that (finger snap)!

Lester: That's the way it is. All right now, when you dont really know that you are God, you can discover it by tracing the source of I. If we trace the source of the ego- I, we'll discover it is the infinite Being. If you'll trace the source of the mind you'll discover the same thing. The infinite Being is putting this pretense of limitation, ego and mind, over Itself so that we don't see this statement of Truth: that this world is only God playing a game of apparent limitation. The way to discover it is to seek the source of the ego- I, and if we stay with it we'll discover that it is really the Infinite I that I am.

Q: Well according to your book and let me use Bob's words, if I play the game of ball looking up to God, then I don't have it made. If I do anything at all looking out from God, then I know who I am. But if I play the game looking up to God, from the outside, then I dont know.

Lester: You are very right Frank. Translating that into Christ, if I look up to Christ, or believe in Christ, that isn't it; I have to look out through the eyes of a Christ; I have to believe as Christ believed; I have to be as a Christ. I'm just taking what Frank said and putting it in a biblical way.

Q: It's in your book. I read it in the Gita this morning and also in your book, so you get your stuff from a good source.

Lester: In the beginning of the book there is a disclaimer stating that the knowledge is not mine. It is Truth; I can't make it; I can't unmake it; I can recognize it or not recognize it. That's the choice that we have, -to recognize the Truth or not to. We can't make it; we can't do anything to it; but we recognize it.

Q: All the books that I read say the same thing; Patanjali says it, Yogananda says it, the Gita says it and the Vedas say it; they all say it.

Lester: And they said it a thousand years ago, a million years ago, a billion years ago, a billion, billion years ago, and in the future they'll say the same thing. Because Truth is that which never changes; It is changeless. The basic Truth will never change in all eternity and you can know this for the entire universe. If somebody comes from a planet billions and billions of light-years away and tells you otherwise, no matter how high he looks, acts and talks, if it doesn't fit in with what you know of the changeless Truth, you can be sure he's wrong, even though he's acting and looking like a god.

Do you know what I'm saying? Even if an angel tells you something, if it's not in accordance with Truth, reject it, because there are so many high appearing beings that look like gods that you can be very easily fooled,-until you know the Truth. Truth is the same throughout from infinity to infinity.

Q: We're trying to get ahead as quickly as we can and we listen and read and we think the right thing to do is to be on the path, but I go to church and I see a priest, a monk, up there and he's been struggling on the path for twenty years. How can I make it quickly when I see in front of me someone who has been on the path much longer and he's struggling?

Lester: All right, look at it this way. If you want to go from Los Angeles to New York City and the direct route is not known to you, you start probing; you might go up to Washington State first, then cut eastward, then come down to Nevada, then go up to Montana. However, if you know the direct route, you take the direct way and get there much sooner. Probing may take you a whole lifetime. Going directly you could do it in three or four days time.

Q: Dont say another word to me, because I got the answer.

Lester: All right. Now the priest or monk doesn't see the direct route and he's probing and he's learning bit by bit. He'll get to New York eventually if he keeps trying and wandering all over the United States.

Q: But doesn't each of us have different abilities? One person gets over something very easily, very quickly, and someone else has a problem that's deep-seated and it's been with him a long while which takes a very active struggle to get over?

Lester: Yes. However, quickness of realization is determined by the intensity of the desire for it. How far have we gone in our desire for it? If we've gone very far, the realizations come fast and easily.

Q: And we stick by them then?

Lester: Yes. They really stick with you. I say to you: I'm not teaching you. You're getting something you've known; you are doing it; you're just re - remembering things you've always known. I can't give you this knowledge; no one can. I just suggest and you open yourself up to that which you already know, have always known and always will know, subconsciously.

Q: In other words, you just read a page of your true Self.

Q: Well, it's Self-realization, - actually.

Lester: Yes, and this is also true: If you haven't grown much, or as much as someone else, you can go way beyond that one if you have a very strong desire for it. Only a very strong desire for full realization will give it to you this lifetime. Anyone who has only a desire for Truth will get full realization quickly. You can override your past conditioning when you want to. How long should it take an infinite, omniscient Being to know that he is omniscient, omnipotent and omnipresent? How long should it take him to do that?

Q: One realization.

Lester: When man so wills, he's immediately set free  totally!

So, really what this growing turns out to be is that we play with the path as were doing now, getting more and more realizations and then one day we say, Oh, my gosh, look at this tremendous thing I have always been! What silly playing around Ive been doing! The heck with it! And boom! Its finished!

Q: And at that moment your looking out from God!

Lester: Yes, youre looking out from God and seeing the whole thing, seeing the silly dream you have been going through of playing the game of limitation, and you just drop it, lock, stock and barrel.

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This Session was recorded in Los Angeles, January 27, 1966.